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Discuss Heathen 03.37 with Eric Murphy & Gayle Jordan – jj

Discuss Heathen 03.37 with Eric Murphy & Gayle Jordan

Talk Heathen 03.37 for September 15, 2019 with Eric Murphy & Gayle Jordan from: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ New episode at 2:30 – You Can’t All …


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  1. Oh! Gayle was a Tennessee senate candidate. Mad respect. I live in the Pac NW but work half the month in Nashville where many of my colleagues are the kind of bible belt believers I am still amazed exist. Co-worker singing hymns in the office. A facilitator in a business training program suggesting we sing a hymn when waiting for the wireless to get fixed and my colleague sitting next to me saying she wasn't comfortable with singing but we could do a prayer. Coming from the very unchurched PacNW I about fell out of my chair. Running for state office in Tennessee? Wow. Amazing. Keep it up!

  2. 38:17 Not that nonsensical claim that: "We have no understanding how this actually works", again. Scientists understand very well how it works. Why do these illiterate guys never listen or inform themselves for once? Just for one? It never happenes.

  3. Re Michael UK: He seems to think that expecting evidence is something unreasonable. Yet the vast majority of things that everyone accepts actually provide basic evidence without anyone having to ask for it. We can believe that a rock exists merely by seeing it on the ground. Tell me that the rock is from another dimension or whatever, now I'm going to ask how you could even know that.

    That Michael and other god-believers have a problem with the very concept of evidence is very revealing.

  4. In regards to Michael's call, how hard would it be for a "God" to show its love for us the way a mother and father can substantially and without question show their love for their child? It wouldn't be, if God were real. Why doesn't God/Jesus show up to help me move into a new place, or give me a hug when things are bad, or watch a game and share a beer with me when I need a friend? It WOULDN'T be for an omnipotent being. The whole reason religion, especially Christianity, relies on faith, is because either their Gods CANNOT do any of this, or there IS NO God at all.

  5. Brian in California, there are only three confirmed spatial dimensions in a single time dimension. They are not together four dimensions.

    It is not confirmed whether a exclusively one or two dimensional thing could possibly exist, and the observance of a fourth spatial dimension exists only in mathematics and has no observation in the real world.

    postulating that because life exists in the third spatial dimension, therefore may be possible to exist in any other dimension is not only fallacious because of the composition fallacy, but also largely because those dimensions have not been demonstrated to exist.

    Even in theory, there is nothing to suggest the qualities are attributes of a creature which exists in higher dimensions. Theoretical physicists might not even be able to observe our dimensions, as we are unable to observe either one or two dimensional realms or beings. there is nothing to indicate that a higher dimensional being would be akin to a god.

  6. Eric's voice is like music to my ears, am I weird?

    I feel like Michael is grasping at straws here. Constantly trying to dodge the answers he's given. They are quite logic and he simply doesn't accept them because he's indoctrinated.

  7. Would people please learn what atheism, theism, agnosticism and gnosticism are. Atheism and theism are dichotomies. Gnosticism and agnosticism are dichotomies. Theism is a beliefe in a god or gods while athiesm is a lack of beliefe in a god or gods. Gnosticism is a claim of " having knowledge" while agnosticism is a claim "without knowledge". You can claim to be an agnostic theist or a gnostic theist. Or you can claim to be a gnostic atheist or a agnostic athiest.

  8. First caller Preston: how about just keeping the core action steps (AA steps 8 – 10) and rewriting/condensing the others to remove references to God or higher power? You could end up with the Six (or seven) Steps of Secular Recovery.

    I agree you’ve identified a need and I think Gayle’s first reply was spot on.

  9. I am a recent atheist although the journey took about 3 years, however I still go to church. What is amazing is that now I pay even more attention to what is said, and I can't believe no one hears how ridiculous it all sounds. It actually has the opposite effect on me now. Just last night I went to a 'leadership' conference which was aimed at pastors and youth leaders etc, so the idea was that they would be preaching heavier stuff that newcomers would not be expected to grasp.

    It was a total mess, the speaker seemed confused but very focused on establishing his cadence, his specific hypnotic style of preaching. I took note of how he would go from a bellowing declaration to a whisper mid sentence, adding to the performance and the perceived prominence of his message, and over-pronouncing simple words so as to make them seem profound in their own right. I think this is designed to distract the congregation from the emptiness of the message, and the quite obvious grand standing that was going on. You see essentially, he was preaching about himself, sharing anecdotes and triumphs from his own life. One thing that really struck me was when he told a story about a gentleman who entered his church a little while ago. Now this gentleman had a doctorate in theology, and was trying to correct him on certain things he had preached about. His response was to chase him out of the church and ask him to never return. This drew significant cheers and applause from the congregation as if he had 'smacked down' a deceiver.

    Another mind blowing point he made, obscured by his cadence and the general hype around the evening, was that he made the point that "Because a deceiver had convinced Eve that God was not as good as he said he was, Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden forever". I nearly had an aneurysm at how little sense this made. I honestly think I visibly convulsed at how silly this was. So God is only good, so long as you believe he is good, and if you are convinced otherwise, you are punished forever, and your children too. Really?

    All in all, it was a great experience. And then of course the offering baskets came out at the end. Now I'm not really opposed to the collection of money, since this is how they fund the entire operation, from the free cappuccinos to the utility bill, but it just seemed so unnecessary and frankly undeserved. Not much was really said, I find it hard to believe that anyone was edified enough by that message to part with money.

  10. Pascal's Wager: A solution.
    "I know it's all bullshit, but what if I'm wrong". Blaise Pascal 1646.
    Thus began Pascal's famous 'wager' upon contemplating his mortality after some dodgy brie. But it's a false dichotomy. There are thousands of religions and if you pick the wrong one.. hell awaits. So accept your fate, go willingly. Satan's probably been misrepresented anyway by religious bias. He's gonna be so busy toasting christians, jews & muslims coz it's probably the Mormons who are right. (That whole Joseph Smith/ con-man was a test of faith by god to filter out the riff-raff) So he'll give the atheists a pass. Plus… free Marilyn Manson gigs every Sunday. In the meantime, live your life, fornicate a little, be kind to animals.
    I know it's all bullshit, but what if I'm right?

  11. Gravity is well established it’s based on mass and that’s why the moon rotates around the earth and those planets with larger mass have greater gravitational pull.

    Gravity is the weakest example one could use

    Yes gravity is deemed a weak force however that could be due to dark energy being a counter to gravity

  12. I think they misunderstood Brian. I think Brian was just talking about the mere possibility of higher forms of life in other dimensions and 'god' is the only word he could use to describe it. I don't think he meant it in a religious way at all. He lost everyone using the word 'god' or 'gods.' I'm with him though in the aspect of MAYBE we aren't IT in the universe, and maybe we are like ants on a hill to some being out there somewhere.

  13. Alcoholics Anonymous unfortunately has now become a recruiting station for potential members to join the largest Pyramid Scam in history (538AD to 2019) Christianity…

    Christianity is a virus which has been spreading across the world since 538AD under the presumption that in 33AD a man was crucified on a cross for mankind's sins?

    Believe in the Father

    Believe in the son

    Believe in the son?

    By default you are dillusional and lost grasp of "REALITY"




    the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.

    "he refuses to face reality"

    synonyms: the real world, real life, actuality;


    the state or quality of having existence or substance.

  14. I have an issue with logical fallacies in general. Just as with any "holy book", written by human beings, so were the definitions of logical fallacies. And even though they "make sense" to many people, they are still a human invention. So what is the "ultimate authority", for lack of a better word in my limited vocabulary, that gives us the view that they really are fallacies? The sheer number of people who accept them cannot be used as an indicator, because they can still be mistaken, just as we say the sheer number of people who accept what is written in "holy books" are mistaken. This is a real mystery to me.

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